Using the audio input...

Any questions about the Midronome, technical or not

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unclenige
Posts: 12
Joined: 28 Feb 2022, 12:54

Using the audio input...

Post by unclenige »

Hello!

My question is:

I'd like my drummer to drive the click and midi clock. :o

I'd like midronome to speed up and slow down with him.

I'd like my modx arps to stay in time...

If I buss his kick and snare within the console to the midronomes audio input...

Will it generate click and clock after the first two beats played?

Will it follow rallentandos? (If not set to 'lock')

Niall
Simon
Posts: 213
Joined: 09 Jan 2022, 22:08

Re: Using the audio input...

Post by Simon »

Hey Niall :)

You're not the first one to ask about this - basically what you want is some form of tempo detection from normal music/audio.
That's a whole new level of complexity which the Midronome does not do - yet at least :D

I know Ableton has a feature like this called Tempo Following - I've never tried it but I would not be surprised if it is not the most stable, it's very complex software and there is no way to get 100% right all the time (but I heard the Ableton works pretty well actually as long as you do not move too fast and play steadily).

Basically you can send like a kick drum to the INPUT of the Midronome, which will take it like a tap tempo. So that means the only way what you describe will work is if you play 4 on the floor (every beat on the kick drum) constantly. Or kick snare kick snare constantly if you send both of these.

Just an idea: if your drummer listens to the click and stays in time with it, he can change the tempo mid-song while listening to the click (and staying in time with it), by doing one of the following:
  • use one hand to turn the knob to change the tempo gradually
  • use a pedal to tap a new tempo
  • tap the tempo on a separate drum pad (not one he plays on) to change the tempo
  • use a pedal to tap a new tempo
  • use an expression pedal to gradually accelerate or decelerate the tempo (he he this is a new thing which I might or might not implement before production :) )
  • or have a switch where he turn on/off the buss with his kick&snare to the Midronome's INPUT - then it can stay off unless he wants to change tempo
Notice that these would definitely require some practice from his side to be able to do all of this while playing :)

And yes when you tap tempo the new tempo is set already at the second tap.
unclenige
Posts: 12
Joined: 28 Feb 2022, 12:54

Re: Using the audio input...

Post by unclenige »

Hi Simon,

Thanks for your reply.

I was looking at triggers for Kick Snare and Toms...into a mini mixer local to the drummer and sent in mono to the midronome audio input.

However, the spill might be an issue (bleed from cymbals) without gating and filtering and some consistency ie limiting. All we need is the consistent transient, not tone. Contact mics are the best bet to reduce spill I guess. Same as your drum pad tap tempo.

Also some kind of threshold for timing that would stop the unit retriggering on 8th or smaller sub divisions - so it only plays quarter notes. BPM limited 60 -180...

I think that the idea of adjusting tempo manually during performance is next to impossible - any natural excitement would be killed by having to remember to up the bpm...

Has anyone tried it for real?

N
unclenige
Posts: 12
Joined: 28 Feb 2022, 12:54

Re: Using the audio input...

Post by unclenige »

The drummer can set the tempo manually at the start of each song...leave it running and open the tune on hi hat or let the guitarist start or whatever.

Midronome would need to drop into 'slave mode' once the back beat started. If that makes sense...so always looking at the audio 'trigger' input for new tempo instructions.

Mind you, the occasional single snare hit might drop the tempo to minimum! :lol:

Hmmm.
Simon
Posts: 213
Joined: 09 Jan 2022, 22:08

Re: Using the audio input...

Post by Simon »

unclenige wrote: 03 Mar 2022, 16:20 I think that the idea of adjusting tempo manually during performance is next to impossible - any natural excitement would be killed by having to remember to up the bpm...
That's literally the whole reason I created the device in the first place - to go up and down as you "feel" the song, the same way acoustic musicians would do it, but this time with all sequencers and synths following :D :D Gosh I really cannot wait to see people use it this way live - maybe you will be the first Niall :D

But the original idea was that the drummer would just gets the click and follow it, then someone else would be changing the tempo (for example the keyboard player). The drummer having to focus on the click and tapping the tempo at the same time would definitely be difficult I give you that :)
unclenige wrote: 03 Mar 2022, 16:20 Has anyone tried it for real?
Unfortunately nobody has tried this particular scenario on a stage yet - some bands have in a rehearsal setting. I tried it sitting on the drums, and as long as the keyboard player does smooth moves with the tempo, it still grooves very nicely IMHO ;)

unclenige wrote: 03 Mar 2022, 16:20 I was looking at triggers for Kick Snare and Toms...into a mini mixer local to the drummer and sent in mono to the midronome audio input.

However, the spill might be an issue (bleed from cymbals) without gating and filtering and some consistency ie limiting. All we need is the consistent transient, not tone. Contact mics are the best bet to reduce spill I guess. Same as your drum pad tap tempo.
Just so this is clear - the Midronome does not do tempo detection from a complex beat. The INPUT is not an audio input, it's more of a combo Pedal/DrumPad/Sync input. Sending audio to it would work, and yes any hit that is too low (bleed or not) will be ignored, but for all the detected hits they need to be a constant steady tap just like a tap tempo.

I understand what you want to do, basically have a way to get the tempo from live playing music to sync your synths to it. Yes that would be really cool, but the Midronome cannot do that unfortunately :roll: I would love to make a device that does precisely this, I will definitely consider it for the future if enough people are interested, maybe make a Midronome 2.0 with that feature ;)

For now like I said it sounds like you should try the Ableton Tempo Follower (if you do please let me know how that goes).
Vladderman
Posts: 5
Joined: 03 Mar 2022, 12:27

Re: Using the audio input...

Post by Vladderman »

unclenige wrote: 03 Mar 2022, 16:20
Has anyone tried it for real?

N
The drummer of my band uses the big knob on the midronome to do precisely that, mid-song. During a certain section of a song we gradually ramp up from 160 to about 170/180 bpm. It took some getting used to and I have to say we do all play with click on our ears, but it's certainly doable!

I was thinking that it might be possible to use the tap-tempo to increase the bpm with a certain amount (say 5 bpm) everytime you tap it, but that expression pedal for the tempo sounds mighty interesting, Simon!
Simon
Posts: 213
Joined: 09 Jan 2022, 22:08

Re: Using the audio input...

Post by Simon »

Vladderman wrote: 03 Mar 2022, 19:36 The drummer of my band uses the big knob on the midronome to do precisely that, mid-song. During a certain section of a song we gradually ramp up from 160 to about 170/180 bpm. It took some getting used to and I have to say we do all play with click on our ears, but it's certainly doable!
Oh - I did not think you guys were changing the tempo mid-song, precisely because the device is by your drummer :D
Amazing to hear in any case! And well done to your drummer then, I am sure it was not particularly easy!
I guess you also tried it live?

And nice to hear you'd like the expression pedal - I will probably make a new thread and we can discuss it there ;)
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