will Analog Sync work with external hardware?

Any questions about the Midronome
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theonlyion
Posts: 5
Joined: 11 May 2023, 06:04

will Analog Sync work with external hardware?

Post by theonlyion »

Can you use analog sync with another device that isn't a DAW? like if I route the click from a hardware piece (mpc, rc505, sp404 etc.) to the analog click will it work just as well?

Thanks,
Simon
Posts: 873
Joined: 09 Jan 2022, 22:08

Re: will Analog Sync work with external hardware?

Post by Simon »

Hi :)

As long as the Midronome receives what it is supposed to, then yes it will work with anything.

But notice that for Audio Sync you cannot simply send a click, you need to send a special sync audio file generated by the Sync File Generator tool. But if your MPC can play the file, then yes it will sync the same way it does to a DAW. See the Audio Sync section of the manual.

As for syncing to simpler signals like a metronome, you can play around with the PAd and P.A.d. modes of the Midronome's input. These modes expect regular drum pad hits which you can "simulate" by sending an audio click into the input. Notice that this mode is not particularly precise, it was more designed for a drummer to tap the tempo than for syncing. But other people have tried it and made it work ;)

Last possibility is if this gets implemented: viewtopic.php?t=113

Cheers
Simon
theonlyion
Posts: 5
Joined: 11 May 2023, 06:04

Re: will Analog Sync work with external hardware?

Post by theonlyion »

Thanks Simon,

follow up question. How about if you use a device to be the master clock to the DAW? and then audio sync from the daw to midronome which then lead the clock for other devices? Addtionally, any sense of how it interacts when using Ableton Link?
Simon
Posts: 873
Joined: 09 Jan 2022, 22:08

Re: will Analog Sync work with external hardware?

Post by Simon »

There is no Ableton Link, at least not for now.

As for being a master to the DAW, you can do this if your DAW can follow MIDI Clock (afaik: Ableton, Bitwig and Reason do). This syncing method is much easier to set up but it will not be as precise as Audio Sync. And I would suggest you use either MIDI Clock sent over USB (=Midronome is master), or Audio Sync (=DAW is master), using both at the same time might give very strange results :D
And in both case the Midronome will be able to send MIDI Clock to your hardware devices, that's the whole point of it :)

Simon
theonlyion
Posts: 5
Joined: 11 May 2023, 06:04

Re: will Analog Sync work with external hardware?

Post by theonlyion »

I would love to start any/every song with either a single loop played live or a sampl that sets the tempo and then utilizes the midronome's sync qualities to the fullest, ideally without the need for IEMS for a click to follow.

for example: There's a song that has a predetermined bpm from a collected sample, and then the next song may start with my looping the guitar and building off that. If I wanted to hold onto that structure, but also spontaneity while also being utilizing the midronome to its best ability to sync everything.

IS DAW SYNC likely the best solution and using a DAW Looper to set the tempo? is it possible to put multiple sync files into ableton clips as different tempos and use the internal ableton looper to set tempos on songs that start live?

Thanks for all the work you've done!
Last edited by theonlyion on 15 Jun 2023, 21:53, edited 1 time in total.
Simon
Posts: 873
Joined: 09 Jan 2022, 22:08

Re: will Analog Sync work with external hardware?

Post by Simon »

Sounds like you should create a new topic or ask on the Facebook group for a question like that - then you might get answers from the community as well ;)

I am not sure I follow 100%, but what I can say is:
  • With Audio Sync (DAW Sync) you will be able to loop part of your song at the beginning, then if you keep the DAW transport playing and stop the looping the song will stay in sync and follow the rest of the DAW session (if say you have tempo changes for example). BUT right now it's not possible - you need to wait for the coming version of the Sync File Generator tool (next week I hope)
  • Yes you can put multiple sync files with different tempos in one session, then you can use Ableton's looper to launch them individually. But again you will have to wait for the coming version of the Sync File Gen tool.
fffiiissshhh
Posts: 3
Joined: 20 Jul 2023, 21:50

Re: will Analog Sync work with external hardware?

Post by fffiiissshhh »

Simon wrote: 12 May 2023, 07:28 As long as the Midronome receives what it is supposed to, then yes it will work with anything.

But notice that for Audio Sync you cannot simply send a click, you need to send a special sync audio file generated by the Sync File Generator tool. But if your MPC can play the file, then yes it will sync the same way it does to a DAW.
Hi Simon,
thanks for the hard work developing Midronome so far.

I've had very limited success so far with Audio sync from multiple different sources:
- sync file loaded into a multitrack mixer and set to a dedicated aux out (tascam model 16)
- sync file loaded into Ableton dedicated track in arrangement view (and every possible permutation of warping modes, including unwarped)
- an outdated VST / AU plugin i found on the forum somewhere

On the multitrack mixer with aux out: starting clock works fine, and it seems to be in sync, but every 5-10 seconds or so, I get 'ERR' and the clock hangs for a second. This wouldn't be so bad if the switch to midronome's master mode was instantaneous and therefore the hardware wouldnt notice the clock source changing , but it 'hiccups' the clock and all of my gear hiccups too. As if someone pressed stop and then start again manually. I tried the aux out (sync file volume) at many different levels, figuring it was too loud or too quiet. Same result.

From Ableton - when using a sync track in Ableton, this same thing would occur but less frequently - like every 2-3 minutes. Throws off hardware arps etc. Not sure how this really differs on a technical level from the Tascam example, except that I was using a different audio interface?

Next up, I'll try the Ableton Instrument Rack i found somewhere on this forum. Fingers crossed that's more reliable...

I know you're working on an updated version of the sync file generator - so thanks! Can't come soon enough:) But really hope it comes before the return window on my Tascam closes, since it'd enable the best of all worlds:)
Dark Waves
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Joined: 31 Mar 2022, 07:38
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Re: will Analog Sync work with external hardware?

Post by Dark Waves »

fffiiissshhh wrote: 20 Jul 2023, 22:03 every 5-10 seconds or so, I get 'ERR' and the clock hangs for a second
This may or may not be relevant, but I had similar behavior until I changed power sources to the Midronome. Ironically, the problem occurred when the cable was plugged into a dedicated USB power port on a UPS (good quality one, too), yet when I moved it over to one of my computer's USB hubs, the errors cleared right up. Two hubs I'm using successfully are from StarTech and TP-Link, and they are both independently powered from that very same UPS, but using AC / DC adaptors.
Simon
Posts: 873
Joined: 09 Jan 2022, 22:08

Re: will Analog Sync work with external hardware?

Post by Simon »

fffiiissshhh wrote: 20 Jul 2023, 22:03
Simon wrote: 12 May 2023, 07:28 As long as the Midronome receives what it is supposed to, then yes it will work with anything.

But notice that for Audio Sync you cannot simply send a click, you need to send a special sync audio file generated by the Sync File Generator tool. But if your MPC can play the file, then yes it will sync the same way it does to a DAW.
Hi Simon,
thanks for the hard work developing Midronome so far.

I've had very limited success so far with Audio sync from multiple different sources:
- sync file loaded into a multitrack mixer and set to a dedicated aux out (tascam model 16)
- sync file loaded into Ableton dedicated track in arrangement view (and every possible permutation of warping modes, including unwarped)
- an outdated VST / AU plugin i found on the forum somewhere

On the multitrack mixer with aux out: starting clock works fine, and it seems to be in sync, but every 5-10 seconds or so, I get 'ERR' and the clock hangs for a second. This wouldn't be so bad if the switch to midronome's master mode was instantaneous and therefore the hardware wouldnt notice the clock source changing , but it 'hiccups' the clock and all of my gear hiccups too. As if someone pressed stop and then start again manually. I tried the aux out (sync file volume) at many different levels, figuring it was too loud or too quiet. Same result.

From Ableton - when using a sync track in Ableton, this same thing would occur but less frequently - like every 2-3 minutes. Throws off hardware arps etc. Not sure how this really differs on a technical level from the Tascam example, except that I was using a different audio interface?

Next up, I'll try the Ableton Instrument Rack i found somewhere on this forum. Fingers crossed that's more reliable...

I know you're working on an updated version of the sync file generator - so thanks! Can't come soon enough:) But really hope it comes before the return window on my Tascam closes, since it'd enable the best of all worlds:)
Hi :)

If you want something reliable, first you have to stop finding outdated and home-made solutions, stick to the official way :)
The Midronome User Guide has just been updated today (including the AudioSync section), and there is a new PDF regarding syncing with DAWs.
It's all on https://midronome.com/support

The new PDF is more of a guideline and to make sure the users get the big picture. For your specific situation, why don't you start over, syncing Ableton by following step by step this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-tWpy4 ... nE&index=3

Take your time, and make sure you constantly get the same results as the ones on the video.
Also make sure you are using the latest version (1.0) of the Sync File Generator (which has been out for a while - I've sent email and made FB posts about it), and are running the latest firmware (1.1).

If it does not work, let us know at which step.

If it works you might get the same results you had before, with a strange "Err" every 3-4 minutes. This could be caused by a few things, Dark Waves had a good point about the power source. See also the Troubleshooting section of the "sync with DAWs" PDF, which could help :)

Simon
fffiiissshhh
Posts: 3
Joined: 20 Jul 2023, 21:50

Re: will Analog Sync work with external hardware?

Post by fffiiissshhh »

thank you both for the ideas! I'll try switching the power source and will also check out the updated documentation.
fffiiissshhh
Posts: 3
Joined: 20 Jul 2023, 21:50

Re: will Analog Sync work with external hardware?

Post by fffiiissshhh »

Update: the new sync gen tool is an improvement! works almost flawlessly when loaded into the Tascam as a stripe track, of course that's very much a fixed BPM since the tascam can't warp/repitch.

Syncing from Ableton, the repitching and tempo changes now work like a charm, but unfortunately, even when powering the Midronome directly from my Macbook, I'm still getting the hiccups every 30-60 seconds. I followed the instructions of course:)

I'll try next with a dedicated power bank...Not giving up yet. It's so close!
Dark Waves
Posts: 41
Joined: 31 Mar 2022, 07:38
Contact:

Re: will Analog Sync work with external hardware?

Post by Dark Waves »

As long as you're trying things, maybe see if a different USB cable is any better.
Simon
Posts: 873
Joined: 09 Jan 2022, 22:08

Re: will Analog Sync work with external hardware?

Post by Simon »

fffiiissshhh wrote: 28 Jul 2023, 09:45 Update: the new sync gen tool is an improvement! works almost flawlessly when loaded into the Tascam as a stripe track, of course that's very much a fixed BPM since the tascam can't warp/repitch.

Syncing from Ableton, the repitching and tempo changes now work like a charm, but unfortunately, even when powering the Midronome directly from my Macbook, I'm still getting the hiccups every 30-60 seconds. I followed the instructions of course:)

I'll try next with a dedicated power bank...Not giving up yet. It's so close!
Nice - at least there is progress. By "hiccup" you mean the "Err" on the screen?
That probably means Ableton is sending an extra pulse - why that would happen only every 30-60s is a real mistery... My guess is this has something to do with the warping. Maybe try starting from another tempo, idealy closer to the tempo you are warping to.
Are you sure you are not sending anything else on that audio output?

Another thing to try: create a very long sync file at bpm X, then import it in Ableton, disable the warping in Ableton, make sure there are no fades on the file, and set the tempo to bpm X. Then see if you still get that hiccup every 30-60 seconds.

Let us know how it goes - if you cannot get it to work, I intend on making soon some online video calls (weekly or biweekly) where I can go through people's issues with them, you can join the first one :)
I'll send an email and make a post about it when the first one is coming.

Cheers
Simon
MPrinsen
Posts: 72
Joined: 01 May 2023, 13:42

Re: will Analog Sync work with external hardware?

Post by MPrinsen »

Maybe the hiccup comes from your cpu glitching? That can also create clicks in the output audio. Try raising the buffer size of your audio interface to see if that helps.
MPrinsen
Posts: 72
Joined: 01 May 2023, 13:42

Re: will Analog Sync work with external hardware?

Post by MPrinsen »

theonlyion wrote: 24 May 2023, 06:20 I would love to start any/every song with either a single loop played live or a sampl that sets the tempo and then utilizes the midronome's sync qualities to the fullest, ideally without the need for IEMS for a click to follow.

for example: There's a song that has a predetermined bpm from a collected sample, and then the next song may start with my looping the guitar and building off that. If I wanted to hold onto that structure, but also spontaneity while also being utilizing the midronome to its best ability to sync everything.

IS DAW SYNC likely the best solution and using a DAW Looper to set the tempo? is it possible to put multiple sync files into ableton clips as different tempos and use the internal ableton looper to set tempos on songs that start live?

Thanks for all the work you've done!
So you actually want an automated tap tempo function? Maybe you can do this already by using the pedal input and set it to tap tempo and feed it clicks?
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