Swing

The place to suggest and discuss potential new features on the device

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pieterv1
Posts: 4
Joined: 12 Aug 2022, 01:30

Swing

Post by pieterv1 »

Swing.. 'nuf said 8-)

I've seen swing getting mentioned briefly in the topic about tempo offset, but I think it deserves its own topic really.

The idea is to have adjustable (amount + division) swing for both Midi ports and analog clock out. It would be great to have for those devices that don't have a swing/shuffle feature built in. Like the TR-808, TR-606, but also modern examples like the Korg Volca's or Behringer TD-3, Pro-1, MS-1 just to name a few. Also any sequencer or device with built-in sequencer with analog cv clock would be able to be 'swinged' :)

With my TD-3 I was already able to achieve swing using my TR-8S and trust me, you need shuffled acid bass lines in your life.
Last edited by pieterv1 on 12 Aug 2022, 16:53, edited 2 times in total.
Simon
Posts: 211
Joined: 09 Jan 2022, 22:08

Re: Swing

Post by Simon »

Ok, nice to know about the devices that do not have swing, thanks for the list Pieter :)

I am generally against features that make the Midronome closer to the Multiclock (and it keeps getting closer and closer... It was never my intention but people keep asking for "multiclock features" :roll: ), I think it's nice that the devices are different, if people want can then decide what suits them best ;)

But I'll consider it - let's see how many people want this, thank you for creating a topic about it ;)
gavibee
Posts: 7
Joined: 11 Sep 2022, 16:51

Re: Swing

Post by gavibee »

+1
for swing/shuffle functionality please.

I understand why you wouldn't want to simply copy the Multiclock, but swing is a deal breaker for me and many other potential users.
You also use the Multiclock in your comparison table on your website so I think it's only natural people will want similar features!

Thanks again for all your hard work on this.
Looking forward to where it leads :D

gavibee
Simon
Posts: 211
Joined: 09 Jan 2022, 22:08

Re: Swing

Post by Simon »

Hey gavin

That's a fair statement ha ha :lol:

Let's see how many people want this ;)

Simon
gavibee
Posts: 7
Joined: 11 Sep 2022, 16:51

Re: Swing

Post by gavibee »

Thanks Simon.
Just had a crazy thought... as a quick win, what happens if you 'swing' the audio sync signal coming from your plug-in?! :?:
Simon
Posts: 211
Joined: 09 Jan 2022, 22:08

Re: Swing

Post by Simon »

That's actually a GREAT idea!! It would only work when the device is slave to a DAW unfortunately but it would actually work right out of the box :D
The only thing will be the tempo displayed on the device that will jump a bit (but I could probably detect it and improve that).

Question regarding swing: I've actually never done that so I am not sure "where" the swing is? Do you swing each 8th note like this?
Greenshot 2022-09-23 07.13.28.png
Or is there a different way of doing this?

Cheers
Simon
maxbrank
Posts: 3
Joined: 23 Sep 2022, 17:54

Re: Swing

Post by maxbrank »

+1 pour le swing !

Le swing est indispensable, ma tr808 en a furieusement besoin, sinon c'est trop straight, trop droit, manque de groove, et puis avoir un swing général c'est pratique pour contrôler le swing de tous les matos en un clin d'oeil.

Merci pour tout, bonne continuation, j'attends le Kickstarter !
gavibee
Posts: 7
Joined: 11 Sep 2022, 16:51

Re: Swing

Post by gavibee »

Simon wrote: 23 Sep 2022, 07:12 That's actually a GREAT idea!! It would only work when the device is slave to a DAW unfortunately but it would actually work right out of the box :D
The only thing will be the tempo displayed on the device that will jump a bit (but I could probably detect it and improve that).

Question regarding swing: I've actually never done that so I am not sure "where" the swing is? Do you swing each 8th note like this?

Greenshot 2022-09-23 07.13.28.png

Or is there a different way of doing this?

Cheers
Simon
Ah ok. Sorry. I should've explained in a little more detail than just, 'give me swing'! :D
Generally, when people use the term 'swing', it refers to 16th-notes. Although some do use 8th-notes as you describe, there's not many so I'd definitely aim to introduce 16th-note swing (or shuffle) before 8th-notes ;)

So, 16th-note swing/shuffle is this:
Image

... and all variations in between, which are usually expressed as a percentage.

Does that help?
Thanks for considering this - really appreciated.

Gav.
gavibee
Posts: 7
Joined: 11 Sep 2022, 16:51

Re: Swing

Post by gavibee »

Or you could also notate it like this:
Image
Simon
Posts: 211
Joined: 09 Jan 2022, 22:08

Re: Swing

Post by Simon »

Ha ha well now I am confused gavin :roll:

Your first image was an 8th note shuffle (same as mine - just a different way of writing it), and your second image was a 16th note shuffle... So which is it? :D

(I could also easily implement both with a setting to select but if you're saying everybody wants and expects only one of them, then it's probably complicating the things for no reason)
gavibee
Posts: 7
Joined: 11 Sep 2022, 16:51

Re: Swing

Post by gavibee »

Go with the second image notation. 16th-note swing is what most people will utilise, but great if you could implement both 16th and 8th note. ;)
maxbrank
Posts: 3
Joined: 23 Sep 2022, 17:54

Re: Swing

Post by maxbrank »

Of course we need swing for 16th and 8th notes, but i would say 8th is more common, so swing would be applied on odd 8th notes.
so on a classic Roland step sequencer made of 16 steps, swing will be applied on steps 3-7-11-15
gavibee
Posts: 7
Joined: 11 Sep 2022, 16:51

Re: Swing

Post by gavibee »

maxbrank wrote: 24 Sep 2022, 16:44 Of course we need swing for 16th and 8th notes, but i would say 8th is more common, so swing would be applied on odd 8th notes.
so on a classic Roland step sequencer made of 16 steps, swing will be applied on steps 3-7-11-15
Afraid I can't agree with that Max. For example, the swing/shuffle that the ERM Multiclock outputs and is part of the Behringer RD-8/RD-9 drum machines' sequencer is 16th-note. In other words, in a 16-step sequencer, all the even steps (2, 4, 6, 8, 10, 12, 14, 16) are delayed by a set amount, with all odd numbered steps landing bang on the quantisation grid.
Simon
Posts: 211
Joined: 09 Jan 2022, 22:08

Re: Swing

Post by Simon »

Thanks max and noted about your TR808 ;)

Interesting discssion you guys are having - maybe an option to choose between 8th and 16th is not overkill at the end ;)

But again if you are doing this with the DAW audio sync track, then you can simply decide ;)
maxbrank
Posts: 3
Joined: 23 Sep 2022, 17:54

Re: Swing

Post by maxbrank »

I said something stupid, it's the opposite of what I said: commonly the swing is in 16th but a swing in 8th can be very useful too.
gavibee
Posts: 7
Joined: 11 Sep 2022, 16:51

Re: Swing

Post by gavibee »

Thanks for clarifying Max ;) Thought I was going nuts there for a few minutes! :D

So, Simon, do you think you'll be able to include swing/shuffle functionality, either at product launch or soon afterwards via firmware updates? :?:

Cheers!
G.
Simon
Posts: 211
Joined: 09 Jan 2022, 22:08

Re: Swing

Post by Simon »

Everything is possible Gavin :D

As long as the hardware is well thought - and it is ;) - it's just a matter of time and effort, and in this case, what features the backers care most about. But this is definitely on the list of possibilities!

Cheers
Simon
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