Still strugglign with Midi Jitter/Delay in Ableton

Any questions about the Midronome, technical or not
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PABZ
Posts: 6
Joined: 03 May 2023, 21:34

Still strugglign with Midi Jitter/Delay in Ableton

Post by PABZ »

Hey,

I’ve been trying ever since I got my Midronome to make it work properly but no chance. Whatever what I do I ALWAYS get jitter/delay.

So I waited for the 2.0 update and the plugin. Tried again, still NOT working.

I am using Ableton Live 11, latest version. Macbook Pro i9.

Audio interface is a Komplete Audio MK2

Buffer Size 512 ( even if up it to 32 it doesn’t change anything the jitter is not better nor closer)

I am trying to sync my Hydrasynth Deluxe perfectly to Ableton Live.

Audio Cable going to the INPUT of the Midronome to the OUTPUT 3 of my Audio Interface.

MIDI Cable going to the MIDI OUT 1 to the MIDI IN of my Hydrasynth Synth Deluxe.

And finally USB cable to power up the Midronome to an USB hub.

Now the plugins seems to be working well because it does sync to the tempo of Ableton perfectly see pictures:

https://ibb.co/v4yMFJv

https://ibb.co/9tZCyKN

https://ibb.co/RCHgKNy


NOW the problem is when it’s time to record some basic four-to-the floor pattern to Audio, I do not get something that’s on time/on the grid at all.

https://ibb.co/YfBvqC5

https://ibb.co/SVdnj6x

https://ibb.co/b74srWZ



Even if I play with the “Track Delay” of the MIDI Track the Midronome plugin is in, it doesn’t change anything.

Also the Midronome is in 2.4.P mode, tried the other 2.4 still doesn’t work at all. The Midronome does follow the tempo of Ableton but the Audio is still not perfectly on the grid and not even close + theres still jitter because each hit differ in time.

What in the hell I am doing wrong? Frustrating to see others enjoy their Midronome and Device all in sync and here I am still struggling lol.
Bruno
Posts: 5
Joined: 01 Oct 2023, 17:54

Re: Still strugglign with Midi Jitter/Delay in Ableton

Post by Bruno »

I`m also struggling with the delay/ latency problem. I also work in Ableton and i`m using a rme fireface UX Interface.

I have a fix latency of 28-29 ms but without jitter, the clock is really stable. When i delay the Track where the Plugin is on, nothing happens.

The delay on the Track also didn't work with the sync-file. But i could create a Sync-file with already delay/shift in it, but its a bit of a workflow killer for me, that^s why i really appreciate the Plugin!

The firmware update 2.0 is super nice, especially the plugin but the latency is really a problem for me.
PABZ
Posts: 6
Joined: 03 May 2023, 21:34

Re: Still strugglign with Midi Jitter/Delay in Ableton

Post by PABZ »

Bruno wrote: 02 Oct 2023, 14:09 I`m also struggling with the delay/ latency problem. I also work in Ableton and i`m using a rme fireface UX Interface.

I have a fix latency of 28-29 ms but without jitter, the clock is really stable. When i delay the Track where the Plugin is on, nothing happens.

The delay on the Track also didn't work with the sync-file. But i could create a Sync-file with already delay/shift in it, but its a bit of a workflow killer for me, that^s why i really appreciate the Plugin!

The firmware update 2.0 is super nice, especially the plugin but the latency is really a problem for me.
You have pretty good audio interface too, this is weird. I do get better results when I am playing around with the "Hardware Latency" of the Ext Instrument rack of Ableton but still some slight jitter and delay.

This is not a drum machine so I dont care about it being exactly on the grid per se, but 16ms of delay the human ear can hear it no? Plus the jitter...

I wonder what the additional delay is about smh.
MPrinsen
Posts: 55
Joined: 01 May 2023, 13:42

Re: Still strugglign with Midi Jitter/Delay in Ableton

Post by MPrinsen »

PABZ wrote: 01 Oct 2023, 19:23 Hey,

I’ve been trying ever since I got my Midronome to make it work properly but no chance. Whatever what I do I ALWAYS get jitter/delay.

So I waited for the 2.0 update and the plugin. Tried again, still NOT working.

I am using Ableton Live 11, latest version. Macbook Pro i9.

Audio interface is a Komplete Audio MK2

Buffer Size 512 ( even if up it to 32 it doesn’t change anything the jitter is not better nor closer)

I am trying to sync my Hydrasynth Deluxe perfectly to Ableton Live.

Audio Cable going to the INPUT of the Midronome to the OUTPUT 3 of my Audio Interface.

MIDI Cable going to the MIDI OUT 1 to the MIDI IN of my Hydrasynth Synth Deluxe.

And finally USB cable to power up the Midronome to an USB hub.

Now the plugins seems to be working well because it does sync to the tempo of Ableton perfectly see pictures:

https://ibb.co/v4yMFJv

https://ibb.co/9tZCyKN

https://ibb.co/RCHgKNy


NOW the problem is when it’s time to record some basic four-to-the floor pattern to Audio, I do not get something that’s on time/on the grid at all.

https://ibb.co/YfBvqC5

https://ibb.co/SVdnj6x

https://ibb.co/b74srWZ



Even if I play with the “Track Delay” of the MIDI Track the Midronome plugin is in, it doesn’t change anything.

Also the Midronome is in 2.4.P mode, tried the other 2.4 still doesn’t work at all. The Midronome does follow the tempo of Ableton but the Audio is still not perfectly on the grid and not even close + theres still jitter because each hit differ in time.

What in the hell I am doing wrong? Frustrating to see others enjoy their Midronome and Device all in sync and here I am still struggling lol.
How are you sequencing your hydrasynth? Midronome only provides a stable clock, not sample accurate notes. So if you’re sequencing your synth from Ableton, it will still have some jitter. This should be reduced by lowering the buffer size though..
HappyClocker
Posts: 19
Joined: 05 Sep 2023, 22:12

Re: Still strugglign with Midi Jitter/Delay in Ableton

Post by HappyClocker »

Hi there,

Here are the "best" YT videos I've found so far dealing with latency in Ableton Live:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkQkzBB6Szc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PT5mD2Zd7F8

Hopefully they are useful for you as well
MPrinsen
Posts: 55
Joined: 01 May 2023, 13:42

Re: Still strugglign with Midi Jitter/Delay in Ableton

Post by MPrinsen »

Bruno wrote: 02 Oct 2023, 14:09 I`m also struggling with the delay/ latency problem. I also work in Ableton and i`m using a rme fireface UX Interface.

I have a fix latency of 28-29 ms but without jitter, the clock is really stable. When i delay the Track where the Plugin is on, nothing happens.

The delay on the Track also didn't work with the sync-file. But i could create a Sync-file with already delay/shift in it, but its a bit of a workflow killer for me, that^s why i really appreciate the Plugin!

The firmware update 2.0 is super nice, especially the plugin but the latency is really a problem for me.
Try using the External Effect device to send the audio to your Midronome without latency.
Simon
Posts: 801
Joined: 09 Jan 2022, 22:08

Re: Still strugglign with Midi Jitter/Delay in Ableton

Post by Simon »

Hi Bruno & PABZ - thanks for sharing your experience :)

Could you both try to record the "AUDIO" output plug of the Midronome? Then try to use the track delay to see if it moves with it (it should!).

Note that the Track Delay will not work if you have any monitoring enabled in Ableton. This is an Ableton bug (or feature?) unrelated to the Midronome plugin.

Once this is perfectly on the grid, it means the MIDI Clock out of the Midronome is also perfectly on the grid.
But your sequencer might have an internal delay, which is why it might come a bit later (then you'll need to adjust the delay again to compensate for this). That would usually be a few ms.

And in either case the latency should be stable (the jitter should be max 1 sample).

Note that the Sync with DAWs manual has been updated, there is in particular a section about the Track Delay in Ableton: https://files.midronome.com/docs/how-to ... h-DAWs.pdf


But as MPrinsen mentioned, all the Midronome does is sending the clock, if you are sending MIDI notes to your synth the timing of those notes is not changed. And check your latency compensation as well as written by MPrinsen here: viewtopic.php?t=251
(thank you! :D )

If none of you can get this to work, please let's get on a video call so I can investigate what is wrong with the setup :)

Cheers
Simon
Bruno
Posts: 5
Joined: 01 Oct 2023, 17:54

Re: Still strugglign with Midi Jitter/Delay in Ableton

Post by Bruno »

Hi Simon

Thanks a lot for replying. The problem is solved, it really was the Ableton monitoring "Bug". I actually know this issue and always record instruments and percussion on a track where the monitor is off. With the monitor off, the clock is perfect on time (1ms delay).

Thank you for the help and also thanks to the other people for the support.

Cheers
Simon
Posts: 801
Joined: 09 Jan 2022, 22:08

Re: Still strugglign with Midi Jitter/Delay in Ableton

Post by Simon »

Bruno wrote: 05 Oct 2023, 20:31 The problem is solved, it really was the Ableton monitoring "Bug". I actually know this issue and always record instruments and percussion on a track where the monitor is off. With the monitor off, the clock is perfect on time (1ms delay).
Awesome! :D

Just wondering, is the delay 1ms after you have adjusted with the track delay or without adjusting at all?
Bruno
Posts: 5
Joined: 01 Oct 2023, 17:54

Re: Still strugglign with Midi Jitter/Delay in Ableton

Post by Bruno »

It was without any adjusting but today its 3ms delay, but i can adjust that now with the delay on the Midronome Track.

Im sending the clock to a Kenton midi-Thru 5 where my digitakt is connected to, which i use mostly for drums. I figured out that i have to set the delay on the tracks in Ableton where some other percussion or drum loops are running, to positive 26 ms ( the delay which is produced thru the auto Knob on the track). Otherwise it will not be in time for jamming.
Simon
Posts: 801
Joined: 09 Jan 2022, 22:08

Re: Still strugglign with Midi Jitter/Delay in Ableton

Post by Simon »

Bruno wrote: 06 Oct 2023, 15:57 It was without any adjusting but today its 3ms delay, but i can adjust that now with the delay on the Midronome Track.

Im sending the clock to a Kenton midi-Thru 5 where my digitakt is connected to, which i use mostly for drums. I figured out that i have to set the delay on the tracks in Ableton where some other percussion or drum loops are running, to positive 26 ms ( the delay which is produced thru the auto Knob on the track). Otherwise it will not be in time for jamming.
I'm a bit confused by your answer. Are you saying the delay has changed overnight? (yesterday it was 0, today it is 3?)

And if the delay is 3ms, why would you need a positive delay of 26ms on your other tracks?
Bruno
Posts: 5
Joined: 01 Oct 2023, 17:54

Re: Still strugglign with Midi Jitter/Delay in Ableton

Post by Bruno »

Sorry for confusing^^

Yess the delay changed from 1 ms to 3 ms ( while recording with the mointor off and no delay settings on the midronome track). But maybe i didnt look good enough on the first day.

When i record with the monitor off, then there is no delay. But when i want to listen to whats coming in ( from the digitakt), then i have to put the track to Auto and there will be 26ms delay. That means, what is coming in from my Digitak will not be in sync with loops that are running in ableton.
And delaying the track where the digitakt is coming in doesnt work. So i have to put the Loops, which are running in Ableton, to positive 26 ms. I can set the delay to 0 again as soon as i recorded the outboard audio.
Simon
Posts: 801
Joined: 09 Jan 2022, 22:08

Re: Still strugglign with Midi Jitter/Delay in Ableton

Post by Simon »

I understand now, thanks for the clarification Bruno :)

I'm working on getting a solution for this - I also contacted Ableton to see if the integration could be made a bit better. In the meantime you can do as you said, or also use a MIDI file to trigger the pulses as macdalor did here: viewtopic.php?t=304
MPrinsen
Posts: 55
Joined: 01 May 2023, 13:42

Re: Still strugglign with Midi Jitter/Delay in Ableton

Post by MPrinsen »

You need to use the External Audio Effect device to send the audio to the Midronome without delay.
denisskok
Posts: 2
Joined: 15 Oct 2023, 18:24

Re: Still strugglign with Midi Jitter/Delay in Ableton

Post by denisskok »

I have made a manual :D

Check it out here
Peter
Posts: 4
Joined: 25 Nov 2023, 14:41

Re: Still strugglign with Midi Jitter/Delay in Ableton

Post by Peter »

Hi,

I'm gettgin some weird results, I recorded the clock from the nome to ableton and the signal is 16ms too early.
I simply connected the nomes audio out with an input on my interface ( Scarlet 18I8 3rd gen), I used the ext. audio effect device on the midronomes VSTI track as was adviced, and created a separate track with monitor off to record it. No track delay set on any tracks My buffer size is 128, and my driver error compensation is calibrated to 0.7ms.

Pic:
https://imgur.com/oZrIVaQ

Pleae help!:)
Simon
Posts: 801
Joined: 09 Jan 2022, 22:08

Re: Still strugglign with Midi Jitter/Delay in Ableton

Post by Simon »

denisskok wrote: 22 Oct 2023, 17:23 I have made a manual :D
Denis maybe you have an idea of what is going on with Peter's setup?

But otherwise Peter I'd say simply use the track delay to add a positive delay to the Midronome plugin track of 16ms and it should be on the grid?
Peter
Posts: 4
Joined: 25 Nov 2023, 14:41

Re: Still strugglign with Midi Jitter/Delay in Ableton

Post by Peter »

Hey!

Thanks I found the problem, i was routing the audio to the recording track from external audio and not from the Midronome plugin + EXT. effect.
I set + 0.4ms track delay and now the click is on the money. ( Is anyone knows why do I need to put a positive offset?)
I think the manual needs to be revised, just to save some melones from exploding. At step 4 the track delay doesn't work since monitor is on Auto, and it's missing that an External Audio Effect should be loaded on the Nomes plugin track. :mrgreen:

Cheers!
Simon
Posts: 801
Joined: 09 Jan 2022, 22:08

Re: Still strugglign with Midi Jitter/Delay in Ableton

Post by Simon »

Awesome! Thanks for sharing :)

Which manual are you speaking about? Denis' or the "How to sync with DAWs"?

Cheers
Simon
dheeraj
Posts: 11
Joined: 30 Nov 2023, 14:38

Re: Still strugglign with Midi Jitter/Delay in Ableton

Post by dheeraj »

Peter wrote: 27 Nov 2023, 21:31
I think the manual needs to be revised, just to save some melones from exploding. At step 4 the track delay doesn't work since monitor is on Auto, and it's missing that an External Audio Effect should be loaded on the Nomes plugin track. :mrgreen:

Cheers!
I think I'm one of them with my melones exploded .. I'm stuck in getting the connections right :(
Peter
Posts: 4
Joined: 25 Nov 2023, 14:41

Re: Still strugglign with Midi Jitter/Delay in Ableton

Post by Peter »

Hi Simon,

I think Denis manual is not correct, and your manual is outdated. Would be nice if you make a video turorial with all the neccesary information in it,with example setups to help the users. Right now is very confusing, I still have no clue for example why on earth it doesn't work for me in Bitwig.

You Can Do It! :)
Simon
Posts: 801
Joined: 09 Jan 2022, 22:08

Re: Still strugglign with Midi Jitter/Delay in Ableton

Post by Simon »

Sorry to hear Peter.

Denis' manual is very specific to Ableton, I doubt it can easily be adapted for Bitwig.

The problem is there are so many DAWs, and possible configurations - it's not possible to make a manual for every single one. I often give support and help people with things which are not Midronome-related at all, but unfortunately these steps are necessary to get things working (for example get the sync working).

So I tried adding specific steps for each DAW in the "How to sync with DAWs" manual - are you saying the steps for Bitwig are outdated?

Simon
Peter
Posts: 4
Joined: 25 Nov 2023, 14:41

Re: Still strugglign with Midi Jitter/Delay in Ableton

Post by Peter »

I'm talking about only for Ableton.
In the Denis manual at step 4 > the track delay wont work since is says taht the monitor should be on monitor is on "Auto", and, it's missing that an External Audio Effect should be loaded on the Nomes plugin track.
The Original manual has the same error. The track delay won't work if the monitor is on Auto( actually you told me this on a facebook comment), and it's missing the instruction that an EXT. audio device should be on the plugin's track.( which was also mentioned on the facebook page somewhere, I accidently found it)

Common Simon, stop, take a deeeeep breath, go for a vacation, come back, then write one good manual for all the DAW's, make a good video, or at least write ONE good for ableton, and you will have many happy customers.
If one manual says this, ant the other that, and the rest is needs to be found after hours of scrolling on the web you will have only exploding mellons around you. :mrgreen:
Simon
Posts: 801
Joined: 09 Jan 2022, 22:08

Re: Still strugglign with Midi Jitter/Delay in Ableton

Post by Simon »

Fair point Peter, thank you - you were right disabling the monitoring was not very clear in the "How to sync with DAWs" PDF, it's now corrected.
I'm not sure what you mean with the external audio device should be on the plugin's track? Like I show on the video, you simply need to drag and drop the Midronome VST plugin - nothing else needed (unless you have a complex setup with multiple latencies to compensate for - then you need more tracks as Denis explains in his PDF).

For any comments about Denis' manual, I suggest you reach out to him directly about it - on the FB group https://www.facebook.com/groups/midronomevip ;)

But note that my point stands: the only "real" manual is the Midronome User Guide. All the others are basically extras to help you set up a VST plugin in your DAW correctly :)
Bruno
Posts: 5
Joined: 01 Oct 2023, 17:54

Re: Still strugglign with Midi Jitter/Delay in Ableton

Post by Bruno »

Somehow the advises in the manual from denis dosen`t solve my latency problem, also not with external audio effect.

How do i create a 24ppqn midi file? Maybe that could work
HarryPotter69
Posts: 1
Joined: 25 Feb 2024, 16:21

Re: Still strugglign with Midi Jitter/Delay in Ableton

Post by HarryPotter69 »

Check MIDI settings: Ensure that MIDI sync settings are properly configured both in Ableton Live and on your Hydrasynth Deluxe. Double-check MIDI clock settings to make sure they are set to external sync.

Audio interface settings: Confirm that your audio interface settings are optimized for low latency. Adjust buffer size and sample rate if necessary to reduce latency.

USB hub power: Make sure the USB hub providing power to the Midronome is supplying enough power and is not experiencing any issues.

Cable connections: Verify that all audio and MIDI cables are securely connected and in good condition. Sometimes, faulty cables can introduce latency or jitter.

Plugin settings: Review the settings within the Midronome plugin to ensure everything is configured correctly for your setup.

Update firmware/drivers: Check for any firmware updates for your Hydrasynth Deluxe and drivers for your audio interface. Updated software can sometimes resolve compatibility issues and improve performance.

Test different configurations: Experiment with different configurations, such as using different USB ports or MIDI connections, to see if that helps alleviate the jitter and delay issues.
Simon
Posts: 801
Joined: 09 Jan 2022, 22:08

Re: Still strugglign with Midi Jitter/Delay in Ableton

Post by Simon »

Bruno wrote: 07 Dec 2023, 16:54 Somehow the advises in the manual from denis dosen`t solve my latency problem, also not with external audio effect.
Wait a few more weeks for Firmware 3.0 - that might solve your issues ;)

Simon
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